EMERGENCY FREEZE ALERT

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edrutecki
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EMERGENCY FREEZE ALERT

Post by edrutecki »

Heater pipe freeze up
Heater pipe freeze up
The temps have been at freezing or below for over a week with no end yet forcast. The condensate pipes on the heaters are freezing solid. Once that happens the heaters will shut down and pipes will start to break. Please be very mindful of your condensate pipes as well as you neighbors.

Bob McLucas, Johannes Sayre, and a few other homeowners have tried to do what they can do to keep these open and draining. The heater in this picture was on its way to shutting down.
GregZerphy
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Re: EMERGENCY FREEZE ALERT

Post by GregZerphy »

First of all, thanks to all of our neighbors who are checking on their non full time neighbors homes, it is GREATLY appreciated! Also, thanks to those who have been putting updates on this forum.

It's hard for me to believe at that extreme angle of the drain hose in the picture that the water could build up in there and freeze. I know in my unit the condensate line runs through the garage and I'm guessing that this may be the root of the problem. Any thoughts? We can at least insulate the line in the garage, this would help a little bit.

Greg
edrutecki
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Re: EMERGENCY FREEZE ALERT

Post by edrutecki »

Greg,

I studied this picture and along with the observations of homeowner Johannes Sayre I suspect the water froze its way up to the pipe. Kind of like a stalagmite. Johannes cut his pipe short only to have the ice form on the ac support bracket and work its way up to freezing the pipe up.

Some people are cutting the pipe inside of the garage and letting it drain into a bucket or trashcan. Great idea but it requires someone to check on and drain it periodically. I also read that you can add a condensate pump to this combination to drain the bucket. Possibly throw in an aquarium heater and it just might be the perfect option.

I have ordered a heat cord to try on mine. This is the only one I could find rated for pvc drain pipes.

http://www.amazon.com/Freeze-Free-Self- ... heat+cable

My plan is to move the condensate pipe about 8inches to the right to clear the support bracket. I am going to install the heat cord and put insulation over it. Hopefully the cord will arrive soon and I can get it installed this weekend.
I'll take some pictures.
abwjms
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Re: EMERGENCY FREEZE ALERT

Post by abwjms »

We had the common configuration that the pipe as installed dripped on the AC support bracket. Rusting it and in the winter creating the ice buildup that Ed described.

We attached an extension with a 90degree elbow and another ~7 inches of pipe run a few years ago, and it had a solid plug frozen into it when we checked on Friday morning. So we sawed it off behind the elbow and the length is about the same as the old originally installed length.

It was dripping freely during the subfreezing temps all weekend, but dripping onto the AC bracket; we cut it on Friday and by Saturday there was an ice pile growing upwards which would have grown up to the pipe in another day or two.

We ended up building a new extension from a tee and a half-cylinder pipe to form a trough. We have only one night's test time on it (Sat-Sun night) and while it performed well, it's just an idea.

The problems here are the physics of freezing which I only know a little about. Observations in no particular order:
1. the extension pipes freeze up I believe because they create a cold space (cold air, cold walls) with no air movement, where the water dripping down can freeze before it reaches the end of the pipe.
* bends and longer run length of the pipe, as well as the pipe being enclosed, promote freeze-up. Keep it short, and keep it as straight and open as possible.
2. this brutally cold air is really dry. If we can keep air moving across the liquid water while it's still flowing, there will be loss to evaporation. (that's to the best of my recollection of the physics)
3. ice will grow more ice. I remember this much, that any liquid water in contact with ice will be exchanging heat with the ice because all of it wants to become either liquid or solid before any of it will change temp from 32F. (It's called phase change, and my version of it is simplistic, but I think it's correct.) If you have liquid water dripping on a pile of ice, and it's freaking cold outside, that water will freeze and add to the ice pile.
4. I thought about insulating the pipe inside the garage and decided against it. because:
- if the garage is warmer than outside ambient then I want that heat entering the pipe. insulation would prevent that. I have my doubts that the volume of condensate water or the heat it's carrying is enough so that it's a net heat source. ??
- if the garage is freezing or below then we have bigger problems. (I need to put foam board insulation on the inside of the garage door panels, the heat loss there must be ridiculous.)
5. OTOH, insulating the outside stub of the pipe makes sense to me because ambient temp of the air and water inside the pipe are still warmer than outside ambient. So the insulation helps keep that heat in the air, water and also pipe material, inside the pipe.

Net: the angle and length of the stub as originally installed aren't useless. The problem is if something allows ice growth rather than shedding. The Anderson positioning of the pipe above the AC bracket is disastrous, and not just for the AC bracket. So, the shortest extension that'll prevent drip onto the AC bracket or any other nearby surface that can become a base for ice buildup towards the pipe seems to be the way to go.

If anyone believes that any of the above is incorrect, -please- say so. The faster we work through the wrong answers together, the faster we get to the right ones.

Last, we don't know anything more about this than you, we're also still figuring it out. There is no substitute for your own engagement and checking of your unit's condition, quick action to clear acute blockages before your heater fails, and inventive work to come up with solutions which work for your condensate pipe's particular configuration. Please don't take anything in this post as a done solution and rest easy in the belief that we had it figured out and if you do the same, you're safe and can rest easy. Unless we get some help from a subject matter expert who has proven solutions that fit our conditions, this is a work in progress, and we (all us owners) are the ones coming up with the answers. (Note that Atlantic Refrig and AC, the excellent Trane contractor in Lewes that we finally found, said that the current temps are completely unexpected in DE and they too are working to respond to them as something new.)

Johannes Sayre
GregZerphy
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Re: EMERGENCY FREEZE ALERT

Post by GregZerphy »

Looks like we had another incident on Tuesday morning, Jan. 28. The pictures showed sprinkler leaks in the sprinkler shed beside Building 9/ Unit 1.


Tuesday January, 28 2014 @ 07:39:59

Nature: Service Call – Broken Water – Fire Sprinkler System

Address: 35781 S Gloucester Cir Millsboro, DE 19966

On Tuesday morning, January 28th, the Indian River Volunteer Fire Company was alerted for a service call request as a result of inclement weather continuing to freeze water pipes and lines associated with the residential fire alarm sprinkler systems.

Emergency response units included Incident Command 80 and Engine #80-3 from the Long Neck facility to mitigate the situation.

Water Flow Activations – Broken Water Pipes – Inclement Weather Related…

As the Indian River fire district exterior temperatures continue hover in the single digit ranges during the evening hours and daytime highs of nearing 37 degrees many residential fire alarm systems have fallen victim to freezing which results in broken water pipes and water flow alarm incidents.

These incidents have caused much damage and necessary repair expenses.

Illustrated herewith is commentary and/or links to assist with preventing frozen pipes…

http://www.irvfc.com/gallery?id=1542&ss=1
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